After all, it is the warrant officer exodus to the airlines that has driven the Armys pilot retention focus. I remember when they tried to get aviators out of the "sack" flight suit and into Nomex BDUs to make them more soldierly. It doesn't matter that theWOFT contract I signed this week states that it is a 6 year ADSO - the Army can do and change what it wants. Well look at three cases: Although each of these career paths has potential for almost infinite variation, this diagram represents likely versions of each: Looking at these side by side, its clear why #1 is the Ultimate option. All branches in the military are facing a pilot shortage. Expect to get yelled at for shit you have no control over. By collecting data and then improving quality of life and quality of service with targeted retention initiatives, the Army will not just increase retentionthe positive changes will increase the appeal of serving as a pilot in the Army, and recruiting will increase as well. Getting in just under the wire. No. Gen. Michael McCurry, the director of Army aviation for the Office of the Deputy Chief of Staff G-3/5/7,who said in September, One question I often get asked is, are the airlines impacting your shortfall? Thats at least 2 moves and several TDYs in the space of about 2 years. pay, allowances, benefits, and responsibilities as a member of the When discussing any big-picture career options, I always make sure to follow Simon Sineks advice and Start With Why. What I would like to add is almost the opposite of some of these comments. (Yes, they say ADSO instead of ADSC because the Army and the Air Force refuse to do anything the same since they divorced back in 47.) Actually, the option to revert to Warrant Officer does exist. So 6 years from ALE graduation day? However, I dont think its worth passing up a nearly guaranteed Active Duty UPT slot in hopes of possibly getting a Guard or Reserve slot 5 years from now. Your appointment to W1 is a conditional appointment until you graduate flight school so you will revert to whatever enlisted rank you held prior to WOCS. They might be stuck on Active Duty slightly longer than Stan, but hed have to spend at least a couple of years at a regional airline to even start competing for major airline jobs. Im a career guy so I dont mind but initially it can be daunting. It just seems like a bait and switch to have me sign a conditional release and paperwork that says 6 years and then say, oh by the way we meant 10. There are many complexities in these advanced helicopters, which translates to increased costs in flight hours, maintenance, and training requirements, Kearns said. That's not what I am talking about. They require more time for people to gain experience. I'm retiring in two years and it's not even to go to the airlines! For example, its the only service that allows people to go into flight training with only a high school degree. . Powered by Invision Community, https://www.reddit.com/r/Armyaviation/comments/gxcx3o/10_year_adso_is_official/. This means that aviation formations get screwed doubly they have to support everyone's demands, while being vastly outnumbered. I wish thiswasa little more clear. F-35s in feature image: https://www.dvidshub.net/image/3982524/f-35-sky. First, as we just mentioned, you only have to worry about one job flying one aircraft for Uncle Sam. You can post now and register later. I was just curious if the numbers are stillsimilar. Instead, the aviation branch has proposed to boost aviation career incentive pay, or flight pay, which can retain more qualified aviators, he said. (Yes, they say ADSO instead of ADSC because the Army and the Air Force refuse to do anything the same since they divorced back in 47.) Raising the service commitment ignores the actual root causes. His deployment vulnerability continues for even a couple of years after his seasoning orders are over. Even just a year or two of delay erases any possible advantages of this career path. This is both expensive and time-consumingtough to fit in around a 9-5 as an engineer, especially if he has a family. I honestly don't believe that the way out of this is getting more people to fly that have less time available left in their military careers. Yeah a lot of questions for those of us that came into this planning on a 6 year deal. We need people with your background, dedication and professionalism in the warrant officer cohort. Soldiers pilot a CH-47 Chinook helicopter during a training flight over the city of Erbil in the Kurdistan Region of Iraq, May 23, 2020. Whether you elect the Branch of Choice or Graduate School Program, there are slight differences to your commitment for those who branch Aviation. Looks like 11-11.5 year total commitment. For most, Top Gun played at least a little bit of a role. If you love the flying youre doing, and you have a squadron of good people, any assignment can be a great experience, no matter how busy you are. Not difficult for the Army in finding 400 additional career minded E-3 to E-7 for the WOFT program if need be. Proponents of the new ADSO have suggested that the Army is catching up with the Air Force and the Navy by matching its pilot obligation with theirs. Probably a 11-11.5 year commitment. Other branches have had 10 year ADSOs for a long time. I'm roaring and ready to go. In the current COVID crisis, those years may soon make the difference between having a great job and. So here I am, considering branching aviation when all of a sudden.BAM! People have no time to actually live their lives. The consensus seems to be that if you graduate flight school in FY 2021, you accrue the 10 year ADSO. I know there are exceptions to the rule, and I know some people haze junior warrant officers. The first step the Army must take is to implement exit surveys for pilots to determine why they are leaving. The service obligation begins on the date an officer attains an aeronautical rating of Army aviator or is removed from attendance, whichever is earlier.. 9 month rotations are followed by field time, followed by gunnery, followed by EIB, followed by a CTC, etc. Flying helicopters looks pretty dope though. I don't know how common my situation is, but I'm sure there are plenty of people like me who barely flew, while there are others flying until they drop. If the civilians don't want to join, not a problem. Anyway, I just clocked 20 years, 5 1/2 years of that has been spent in the Middle East and for what? I want to do it for as long as I can. The best pilots I have served with were prior NCOs. Its a lot to ask. Army and Air Force use this pay. If anything it hurts recruiting new pilots. When I got selected it was a 60/40 split between street to seat and prior. Whatever path you end up taking, please consider taking a UPT slot when offered. MWI Podcast: Is Great-Power Competition a Strategy? Also if you have any time in the army at all, youll probably stay until 20 at that point. Hed probably get 2-3 years at that assignment, but if he did a good job the Air Force would offer him the chance to get a Masters Degree through the Air Force Institute of Technology (AFIT) at Wright Patterson AFB. Its shocking that the Army doesnt have any institutional memory about what causes pilot shortage, which are primarily two broad topics: quality of life in the Army, and economic opportunities outside the Army. I remember similar drama during my Fourth Class (freshman) year at the USAF Academy as we were forced to sign a paper accepting a similar ADSC increase in case of getting an Air Force pilot slot. The, exists specifically for Active Duty pilots willing to make an early commitment to continue their service in the Guard or Reserve. However, on the surface, we see that Stans plan is likely to get a pilot to the airlines a couple of years before his peers. There are also discussions within the Army aviation community of additional changes that would make becoming a warrant officer even less appealing. This call to action comes amid challenging times, with many civilian airlines running on reduced flight schedules, said Chief Warrant Officer 5 Jon Koziol, the Armys command chief warrant officer to the aviation branch, during a Facebook livestream in June. A large number of aviation personnel have a lot of passion and dedication to the mission, but that can only last so long when your life consists ONLY of the mission. Your previous content has been restored. More than likely, the aviations slots will be filled by personnel lower on the OML. I dont hold back when people ask me the best way to become a military pilot. That's what the Army was counting on. The Army is the only service which allow non college graduates in being Officers and pilots as we know. Well also see some advantages of Active Duty and some options for cutting your time there short. The army has never been good at personnel management. 10 is nuts. (Yes, they say ADSO instead of ADSC because the Army and the Air Force refuse to do anything the same since they divorced back in '47.) I crushed the SIFT, passed my flight physical, have a great OML standing, etc., so I should have a good chance of getting my top pick. I wouldnt put it past B Co to drop incorrect information and later say we didnt say that.. So here I am, considering branching aviation when all of a suddenBAM! Unlike pilot deployments that can be as short as a couple of months, engineer deployments are usually 6-12 months. It is for anyone graduating flight school and should be based on your graduation date. The pilot shortage is not in applicants it is in mid career. The views expressed are those of the author and do not reflect the official position of the United States Military Academy, Department of the Army, or Department of Defense. My family got to live in England for three years and it was fantastic! I don't know if there are enough Officers getting out that would be willing to revert to WO to solve the pilot shortage, but maybe it would help. But Im a guard guy so RTAG is at the end of hooker advanced airframe for me theyll be hiring, all my airline buddies said everything is ramping back up. Stans family has still moved several timesboth as an engineer and as a pilot. BrADSO - I signed for one, but then I know for a fact that it wasnt required/taken but its still on my iPERMS. Unfortunately, it will likely not have the opportunity to do so due to the negative impact it will have on retention in the near term. Would they do it with a 12-year commitment? junglerekon 2 yr. ago The TIG start isn't official yet. This! So now the prior Enlisted must do at least 11.5 years and advance to the grade of W3. No one knows somehow, my S1 doesnt know either. Posted on . Stans Active Duty pilot peers would have spent 8-11 years since graduating from college flying for the military full time. The increase in the ADSO will have profound affect on USMA/ROTC cadets. They can surely find that amount in the Enlisted ranks if WARRANTED. In the report provided to Congress, however, increasing the service obligation was not mentioned as a possible solution to pilot retention shortfalls. While I continue to assert this is far better than becoming an Active Duty pilot through the. We want as many applications as we can, so if anybody has any questions, be sure to contact that warrant officer recruiting team, Kearns said. Moving to a random Air Force Base for less than 1 year while Awaiting Pilot Training (APT), Moving to a base for 6-10 months for initial aircraft qualification. As long as hes getting a lot of flight time, Stan should have enough hours for a, When discussing any big-picture career options, I always make sure to follow Simon Sineks advice and, For anyone facing a 10-year military pilot ADSC/O, this means asking yourself: What is it about, For most, Top Gun played at least a little bit of a role. Yes, the Ultimate Military Pilot Career Path is the best it gets you to all of your goals the fastest. The Modern War Institute does not screen articles to fit a particular editorial agenda, nor endorse or advocate material that is published. For anyone facing a 10-year military pilot ADSC/O, this means asking yourself: What is it about military flying that made you want to do it in the first place?. The disparity grows as pilots continue service, with a difference of $1,560.80 per month in favor of a major with fourteen years of service compared to a chief warrant officer 4 with fourteen years of service. One can just see all those 2LTs cringing when the folks at the bottom of each class are forced to take Aviation during the branching ceremony. Yes, life there is fantastic, and its important to get there as quickly as you can because Seniority is Everything. Just to end it and walk away.. victorious..? Not saying I would want the out but, contractually wouldnt there be something to be said for Breach of contract here? The institution of the new ADSO stands in testimony to a DOD organization entrenched in process and procedure at the expense of adjustment to any current reality. In congressional testimony it was stated that at that time (2019) around 40% of the pilot population was within 3 years of being retirement eligible. Now that Im older and wiser, one of my many side-hustles is working as an Admission Liaison Officer for the USAF Academy. Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. In order to figure out the pros and cons of these different options, we first need to compare the timelines side by side. Your flight school ADSO is based on when you graduate WOBC and pin on your flight wings. I would also say if the Army wants to recruit more street to seat, I would require those people to attend Basic Training at FT Benning and intensify the military training for non-prior service WOCs. Theres no debating that the military has a near monopoly on the most exciting aviation available to humankind. I'm good at doing Army things and I enjoy them too, but I don't know if I can commit so much of my life before I've even had my first real taste of being an officer. The extended ADSO is intended to increase Army pilots retention in the future. So why are aviators getting out? If you go to a civilian school and the Army fully or partially funds that course, you will incur 3 times the school time for ADSO if the course is over 60 days. An ADSO twice as long as other branches (for academy grads) or 6+ years longer than ROTC counterparts is only going to deter quality officers that view an additional obligation as a loss of opportunity for careers beyond the service. That is completely and totally gone. I would be inclined to say that your contract is still 6 year ADSO. It's kinda like a Yelp! Yes, , and its important to get there as quickly as you can because, . Rather, the Modern War Institute provides a forum for professionals to share opinions and cultivate ideas. These trips have to be funded at his own expense and would require him to use leave that wont be available for family trips. Thoughts anyone? The DoD report to Congress included a description of Air Force efforts to assess the problem: The Air Force gathered data on what drives separations from an October 2015 Fighter Pilot Retention Air Force Smart Operations for the 21st century event, the 2015 Air Force Exit and Retention surveys, the August 2017 Dedicated Aircrew Retention Teaming Summit, and a series of three aircrew retention crowdsourcing surveys sent to 9,000 aircrew members that culminated in March 2018. How long is Army Warrant Officer School? Armed Forces REGARDLESS of the provisions of this enlistment/ Initial assignments should be in table of organiza-tion and equipment (TOE) rather than table of distribution and allowances (TDA) units. Army Aviation Leaders should. The congressional study on pilot retention noted, One of the most important variables in meeting pilot requirements is the retention rate, as this is used to estimate what level of new pilot production is needed.. 4 years closer to RTAG if they're hiring. Anyone who does a modicum of research will quickly discover that our aviation culture is objectively inferior to the other services. A 10 year ADSO on a guy that already is a senior E6/E7 probably didn't make a lot of sense at the time as well. I just want to stop leaving my family all the time! Increasing the ADSO, though, does not require datait is guaranteed to increase retention. I assume if you're not finished withflight school by 30 Sep 20, your commitment is just as long as the Air Force if not a little bit longer. If I am a scholarship Cadet, I understand that upon completion of my initial 4 year ROTC ADSO, I . Since classes are generally pretty well mixed with people with respect to when they commissioned, the first couple of classes must have been a mix of people on the old 6 and the new 10. Guess what? We are very, very interested in seeing more applications, he added. Time will tell. Prospective warrant officers can see that the Army is having trouble retaining pilots, and they can also see that increasing the service obligation by four years works against their best interests. More career Enlisted apply than street to seat on a yearly basis. I dont think I wouldve taken the 10 Year ADSO, considering that Id just now be ALMOST complete with 10 yrs aviation service. There will always be external factors and organizations that draw quality talent from the Army, but the Army should have more flexibility in their ability and measures to retain quality talent. c. Officer Candidate School (OCS) graduates accepti ng an appoint in the Regular Army or a Reserve Appointment with a concurrent call to active duty incur a 3-year ADSO (see AR 350 . Has this officially started? The report included a figure showing that the Army faced a shortfall of 330 warrant officerswho comprise 70 percent of the Armys pilot ranks. Branch of Choice: Your BRADSO obligation runs consecutively with your flight school ADSO and your commitment will run out to about the 10 year point. This means a steady paycheck and decent home life, except that as the newest pilot in the unit Stan is at the top of the list to deploy if the squadron gets sent downrange. I have a high schooler who is applying to engineering programs for school and is interested in an ROTC path that might include aviation. Im in shape, arguably intelligent, and have at least ten good years of service left in me yet an age waiver will not be considered for aviation for either OCS or WOCS. But at what cost? The U-2 and B-2 are both single-location aircraft, and they go through so much trouble getting their pilots that youd have to try to leave. If you accept tuition assistance, 2 year ADSO. You must understand, the Army has an ace in the hole when filling the Warrant Officer aviation pipeline. The U.S. Army Aviation Center Survival Escape Resistance and Evasion (SERE-C) course. Having been out of college for at least 5 years at the start of UPT, its more likely that Stan will have a spouse and kidsmaking the very busy year at UPT even more challenging. Suddenly, Active Duty isnt looking that bad, right? Like many personnel issues though, the age limit is probably ripe for a re-look given that people now live healthier, more active, and longer lives. I don't want to mess with my retirement, but would love a chance to fly for my country. If you havent already read Part, Part 1: Air Force Reserve Officers Training Corps (AFROTC) Table of Contents What is AFROTC? That seems like a lifetime to an 18 year old. Theres a two word solution to this, age waiver. People tend to forget, aportion of street to seat WOFT applicants areprior service. After AFIT, Stan would owe a payback for school and might have to serve longer than his 5-year non-pilot ADSC. I'm thinking Army will start pushing dates to the right as much as possible to achieve its newfound maximum retention. Press J to jump to the feed. You get to the airlines sooner, and you spend more years at a major airline. I am planning on staying in anyway but that 10 year also looms big if everything sucks and you hate it. Then it gets worse: Over the past 19 years, an Active Duty pilot has also been likely to spend half or more of those operational assignments deployed. However, I dont think its worth passing up a nearly guaranteed Active Duty. Glad I retired when I did. Although 10 years of Active Duty feels like a long time, its not that much longer than the alternatives. 10 year ADSO started FY21. While Stans Option #3 seems to bypass a lot of this, lets look at what hed have to do: This plan assumes that Stan can get hired by a Guard or Reserve unit at this point. At least 70% are not degree holders and they come from all 5 branches of the military. United States, and the U.S. Army Re-serve, unless otherwise stated. More than likely the Lts selected will be lower on the Order of Merit List. The 10 year ADSO was based on whether or not you pinned WO1/2LT by a certain date, not by when you started or graduated IERW. It does have the potential to get him to the airlines more quickly, and hed do all of his military flying in the Guard or Reserve (with Quality of Life far superior to Active Duty, in most cases). Furthermore, for cadets who may want to pursue a civilian career after a stint in the Army, the opportunity costs are higher the longer they stay. This of course will do nothing to fix the problem of toxic leaders, poor assignment choices, or any of the other issues. and our This used to be unheard of. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. However, has he really had a better home life than them? That 10 year obligation doesn't start until you finish flight school. Im a senior NCO with two decades of experience and proven loyalty to the nation and her army. 10 year ADSO is official 78 212 212 comments Best Add a Comment awestm11 3 yr. ago "Army Aviators don't want to stay in the Army even though we pay them less, deploy them more, and treat them worse than their peers in other branches and civilian careers, so we will just force them to stay in longer. Lets assume though that Stan can get hired by a unit, and is scheduled to start UPT as soon as his regular ADSC is up. I'm not ignoring anything that has been posted within this thread -- again, it's all been awesome -- but I want to feel as sure as possible that the opinions expressed here are an accurate assessment of the average Army Aviation experience. Vertical Reference If you quit during flight school you are still obligated to fulfill the ADSO and reassigned to the needs of the Army. For more information, please see our A Leaders Guide to Conducting Research Staff Rides, Report to Congressional Armed Services Committees on Initiatives for Mitigating Military Pilot Shortfalls, Government Accountability Office reported, Creating a Sea Change: TF 76/3, Adaptation, Experimentation, and the Joint Force, Podcast: The Spear The Strategic Lieutenant, Book Talk: Urban Warfare in the Twenty-First Century, Frank Sobchak Joins MWI as Chair of Irregular Warfare Studies, Announcing the Modern War Institutes 202223 Senior and Research Fellows, Call for Submissions: Civil-Military Relations and Modern War, Call for Applications: MWIs 202223 Fellows Program. Yes, they will retain aviators when the quality of life increases for aviation, not just grinding us into the ground until a new command comes along every 12-18 months and does it all over again.
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