Another reason why stronger lofts dont always mean more distance is something I do frequently to help golfers hit the ball farther weaken lofts. Best Shaft For Wedges, Need A New Golf Glove? You cannot paste images directly. Golfers who know this information will have a much easier time controlling their ball flight, hitting the center of the clubface more consistently. Todays golf ball travels farther than ever before and I dont see any need to jack up the short iron lofts. Working through the grades, hisdebut, five-shot victory on the KFT,was backed up with a pair of top-10s and two-top-20s, easily enough to nab his PGA Tour card for 2022/23. An Aussie with a residence in Scottsdale, playing on a windy coastal track this is a great chance. "I suppose its better to be a master of 7 than to be vaguely familiar with 14." Below, you'll see the results. The bounce on the 3-iron is already 0 degrees, so will bending the club for a stronger loft make the bounce go negative? If its putting or greenside scoring, spend your time working on those aspects instead of beating balls on the range. Because of my forward foot was so much above my trail foot, my hands were a good 6" behind the ball, when compared to a level lie. It just depends. And the opposite is true as the speed drops. One other thing is that some clubs are designed from the factory strong lofted to begin with Taylor Made GI irons are a good example of this. You must log in or register to reply here. That would depend on what GI head design you have and to be quite honest the only way to be sure would be to test these irons on a golf radar. GolfWRX_Official And the grip should be light enough to allow supple movement in the wrists during the swing. Callaway 2018 MB irons Ping G425 Max 10.5 - Ventus Black 6X or G425 LST Ventus - Black 7X, Ping G425 Max 14.5 - Ventus Blue 7X If anyone thought the Honda Classic had a below-par field, dont show them this weeks Puerto Rico Open. That said, no equipment can make up for poor fundamentals in your approach to moving a golf ball around three to four miles of real estate in the least number of strokes. What affect would bending an iron 2 degrees stronger have? Taylor Made tour issue M2 T3 Ozik Matrix 8M3 X Odyssey 2-ball Pro-Type milled face putter. The swing is dynamic and I seriously doubt that I can hit two balls on the course exactly the same, with my body being exactly in the same position every time. The trajectory, depending on your swing, should be flatter. I have been reading that the more offset you add it will end up more of a hook shot. Golfers should liken their iron fittings to that of a driver. I knew that bounce and loft have a 1:1 ratio but never thought that changing lie angle would affect swingweight but it makes perfect sense. Undershooter Definitely worth getting L/L check done and adjusted where necessary. Not going to dig any more than normal. This is especially true of clubs made with long hosels. Don't think you'd notice a difference of 2. Will that change the playability of the irons dramatically? Bending the hosel toward or away from the face plane, opens or closes the clubs face angle. I have a 17-degree 4-wood, a 21-degree hybrid, a 26-degree hybrid, and a 29-degree iron as my longer (non-driver) clubs. Titleist Response to USGA / R&A Distance Insights, Bending 716MB irons 1 or 2 degrees strong. But if it'll mess up the performance or whatnot, I'm not messing with it. OP, which is it you are asking about.. making a club 2* stronger or increasing loft? The MB and CB clubs you have need a bit more loft to get the ball launched well. Reduce the loft & you reduce the bounce which, on the longer clubs, is quite small anyway. There you can see exactly what it takes to be an average amateur golfer. I have to explain that the design allows the iron to have a stronger loft. Titleist Response to USGA / R&A Distance Insights. Strengthening loft also increases the offset of the head. Strengthening the loft should decrease the effective offset shouldn't it? Srixon Q-Star Tour / 2. I find Callaway irons have to much bounce to begin with esp. What are you trying to achieve? The GI/SGI clubs are basically directed to help players with lesser abilities to hit the golf ball, usually that also means lower swing speeds. By Custom Edel E-3 Putter, More than likely you will hit the ball a bit farther as well, potentially close to 1/2 a club. Restore formatting, This will give you a low-to-mid-range straight shot. An ideal Launch Angle and Spin Rate for a Ball Speed with a 6 iron of 115 MPH would be right about 15-16* and 6000 RPMs respectively. Thanks for everybody for your help! Decided to get lofts and lie's double checked on my irons for peace of mind and following a gap check session get them bent 2 degree strong to the original manufacturer loft spec. Because of my forward foot was so much above my trail foot, my hands were a good 6" behind the ball, when compared to a level lie. Will I be digging too much? Not a dispute with the OP, maybe even validation, but what about head style? Albion, MI 49224 But bending an iron weak is not as well understood by many golfers, so they are more hesitant. But what I dont understand is why you would need to weaken the loft of irons 2-3* when the gap between irons is 3-4*. I don't have any problems with the slight increase in offset and the lower bounce but if needed you could get someone to grind the leading edge a bit to put some bounce back. Bounce means nothing. A long iron doesn't have much bounce anyway since it was made to not take a big divot. Ping G410 LST 3 Wood Oban Tour Prototype V430 The 4 iron will have a negative bounce if you bend them 2 degrees. This is even less a personal thing than the grip with very little variation, there is a single way to set up to a golf ball to help a good golf swing happen. on tight fairways. Seems that the article could have suggested that for higher swing speed players, the stronger lofts and COG location is necessary to not have the ball shoot straight up. As far as lofts for amateurs go, I feel like long irons have to little difference between them. This puts a 5 iron at 60* and that is way too flat for most people. This applies to both face angle and lie. Club Repair Seminar shows golfers the importance of checking the specs.. Would they still be ideal? After this long introduction, Nick keep preaching this gospel. I dont like alot of offset so that changes things a little. Will it affect offset? So, if you really want to get better at golf, start by learning how to hold the club properly. It wasn't so much the distance I was concerned with but that I hit it a bit too high with a normal swing and it caused some issues on windy days. A golf club can be bent two degrees flat when the lie angle is lowered and the heel of the club is raised to a position that is higher than the toe of the club. Simply put, bending the iron 6.5 degrees strong wasn't an option. You dont need to bend the clubs. I would never ever think of doing this on my own. Taylormade SIM UDI 2i / Diamana THUMP 100X, Taylormade P770 3i (bent weak) / Project X LS 6.5, Taylormade P7MC 5-7i, P7MB 8-9i / Project X LS 6.5. Offset degrees especially with a long iron can be a factor along with sole design. Novak has finished 11th after the first round in Hawaii, fifth at Torrey Pines and in the top-30 at Pebble Beach and at the Honda. To do this, simply Google, Golf Club Fitters Near Me and you will get a great list of places that will make sure you are playing the right lie angle for your game. That is a two club difference. Maybe its conceptually challenging but when all sets came 3-PW with heads the size of your pinky-toe, golfers either left their 3 iron home or just used it for low punch shots back to the fairway; back then, a well-hit 6 iron would outdistance an over-muscled 3 iron seven times out of 10. Machines with fixed measuring gauges will not be accurate when measuring clubs with offset, progressive offset, or face progression hosel positions. No matter what your skill level, you will not optimize your performance with outdated or ill-fitted golf clubs. When you get 2* gaps on the long end there is almost no difference between clubs. I wouldn't feel comfortable messing with the bounce/offset/loft. I am constantly amazed at how many golfers are trying to play the game with a fundamentally unsound hold of the club. I was a little worried I might notice the offset or have trouble with hitting them fat, but they look perfect and play like they should. If anything I am a digger in the golf swing. Callaway MD 3 48 bent to 50 KBS 610 S+ We're not robotic enough to predict that exactly 3 or 4 degrees is the correct gap empirically. Iwas wondering if I could bend my 712 AP2 irons strong and not see any changes in the irons. Step 1 for those golfers is to increase ball speed. 00bolt, May 18, 2017 in WRX Club Techs. Are you above or below average for some or all of these statistics? When you make the club loft stronger you decrease loft, when you make it weaker you increase the loft. On a driver? Unless of course it's a long iron and you have a hard time elevating it in the first place. Upload or insert images from URL. By setting up with the ball 1" farther back in your stance, and all other things being exactly the same you are delofting the club by 1.6* based on the average length club.. Or if youre playing in firm conditions, you might want more spin and a higher launch. Yes, it would make the clubs a little 'longer' (with a lower ball flight), but it might not be worth . That said, people will usually launch clubs higher with a longer shaft length as well, (mechanical advantage/physics) so again, it kind of goes hand in hand with the stronger lofts. Weakening lofts makes zero sense to me. Now I learned to shape the flight high and low at any given moment. You can post now and register later. Currently I play a set of old-school Ping Eye 2s, which I love, but I want the benefits of modern irons and forged heads. would 2 degrees be too much and change the club's characteristics too much? Dont worry and overthink this like most doo. Like you said, it will change the bounce but other than that, it wont change much and shouldnt effect the playability of the club unless you are really steep and need the bounce. Cast club heads made of industrial steel are all on the so-called "unbendable list". A 1 degree lie angle change, either flat or more upright, can cause a 4-yard difference either left or right of a straight target. With all due respect, I am not saying you do not, but club fitters do this all the time and if they mess it up then they can replace the club. Oh, and Jason Day is reputed to have bent some of his irons strong and I'm pretty sure it has nothing to do with ego. Even if you want to say a weakened 4 iron is longer in length than a 5 iron of the same loft and therefore goes farther, your gaps in your set will still be equally proportionate. However, in reality it was now a 63* wedge so what happened. Ping G410 3, 5 and 7 wood, Ping G410 5 hybrid-not much use. 716 MB'S. But, as lofts are strengthened the gaps become compressed on the long end and widened on the short. I will only add that I don't see what the benefit would be to strengthening loft. Each player is different and because of this each iron plays different for each player. question on bending a forged iron 2 degrees strong By ssfranny, January 22, 2019 in WRX Club Techs Reply to this topic Start new topic ssfranny Lefty Boomers 3.5k Feedback 20 0 0 Total Rating 100% Posted January 22, 2019 Have a set of basically new MP 53s I want to bend them 2 degrees strong to make them play more a modern loft. Plenty have broken their duck here, and now the Puerto Rico curse has been resigned to history lets get with a couple of players who have their best days in front of them. I guess Ill need to have my next irons bent weaker leaving some marks on the blade and hosel. Compare that with 49-year-old Atwal, with a best of 49th place since 2021 and an average first-round placing of around 120th for his three starts in 2023, and Scott Brown, admittedly a former winner here, but now 719th in the world and who has, since September, withdrawn twice during tournaments, and missed his last two cuts (Pebble and Honda) ranking 99th and 136th for his first round he certainly looks wrong in every way. The Wedge Guy: What really makes a wedge work. The Topgolf Blue Flag Challenge: Can you go 5-for-5 from 155 yards? I was wondering if bending my irons 1 to 2 degrees strong at a golf shop will change the playability of the 712 AP2s. May 20, 2016 at 10:43 AM It has been working really well for me. The bounce on irons is pretty much a non starter in my opinion. It will reduce the bounce of the club, but the actual effect will depend on your swing path. Strengthening adds offset, the sole of the club is effectively moved back, the hosel is fixed, therefore the leading edge of the sole moves away from the ball, adding offset. Driver: TM 300 Mini 11.5*, Tour Blue 85 X, 44" -or- Cobra Fly-Z+, Phenom NL 60 X, 44.5", 3w:King LTD, Aldila RIP Beta 90 X -or- TM Stage 2 Tour, NV105 X By I meant decrease loft and make stronger. The basic fundamentals of striking a golf ball have not changed nearly as much as golf club technology, and those fundamentals have their roots dating back a hundred years to Bobby Jones and his peers or even further. I am not sure exactly what you are asking with the final 2 questions, are you asking should the 5 and 7 iron have the same launch conditions as the 6 iron, or would there be any issues if your 5 iron or the 7 iron launched like the ideal conditions for the 6 iron? My name is Justin and I am a PGA Golf Professional. I've had plenty of clubs bent a degree or two and never had an issue with how the clubs performed, even a wedge. Using like say an Older Macgregor blade butter knife with a thin sharp leading edge on the sole if you deloft more than 1 degree or so you have a chance of digging to China. Clear editor. Since clubs are bent with iron bars by applying pressure on. Backups:Ping Sigma G Tyne (face-balanced) + Evnroll Gravity Grip | SeeMore FGP + SuperStroke 1.0PT. I am now thinking I am just going to bend my 712 Ap2 irons to the 714 AP2 specs so my gaps will match up better with my wedges. Thats basically what companies are doing anyway. Nick so, how much difference can CoG location make to the optimum loft? I wouldn't feel comfortable messing with the bounce/offset/loft. Started Thursday at 03:24 PM. In between, the Aussie came home fast to be 18th in Cam Smiths Australian PGA, and although he missed the cut at his home Open, sat in the top-10 after an opening 65. But if a high spin player gets a 15 launch and 6000 RPM with a 115 MPH ball speed with a 5-iron, then whats wrong with that? Ball- Bridgestone Tour B X, In the grand scheme of things, I would say zero effect. High bounce irons absorb a change like this more easily. of distance, and more playable iron trajectories. Ultimately, your answer is yes, you can do this. The G30 is a high-launching game improvement design. Introduce Yourself/ WIYB (What's In Your Bag), Lessons, Drills, Mental Game, and Fitness Tips. Sign up to receive product offers and news! Now if you take some of the modern GI irons with the thick sole and rounded leading edge (Infiniti brand Assure comes to mind) you can de loft or strong loft it 3 or 4 degrees with no problem at all. You won't notice it. If you want to simply hit the ball further, find an iron that launches really high and spins really low, you will knuckle ball the shot a long ways, but odds are you will not be able to control yardages or stop the ball under most conditions. Display as a link instead, In some cases "craftsman's" marks on the hosels may result from bending them to the required loft / lie. It is amazing how much higher/lower similar irons can perform, in terms of player level. 10.5 set at small - Will the clubs dig more or enough to tell a difference? And why really do you need to do it besides being able to brag about hitting the ball farther? Well gee, I guess if you cant get a 7 iron in the air, you really do need some help haha. ENTER NOW! December 27, 2014 in Club Making/Repair & DIY Projects. TM TP UDi #3, MC 4-7, MB 8-P w/ Tour V S+ Display as a link instead, Bubba might better be able to answer that question, I know you can with the mb or cbs. Thats not to say this exotic land doesnt bring a classy winner. Yes, it would make the clubs a little 'longer' (with a lower ball flight), but it might not be worth it, especially if you already take a divot. Ping G425 5 wood & hybrid Callaway MD 2 58 [size=4]KBS 610 S+[/size] examples, keep you head down, hit down on the ball, you gotta swing inside out. Would bending it serve the same result? Being a golf club designer and marketer, I certainly know that there are gains to be made in your efficiency by availing yourself of the right modern equipment. Sounds like it's a long iron. I just purchased a new set of 716MB irons. Usually weak, but occasionally strong, and if done intelligently where you don't hurt the clubs playability it's no big deal. All very well getting consistent loft gaps if your distance gaps are varied. Taylor Made Stealth 10.5 Aldila Ascent Red R flex, Wilson D7 forged 5-GW- Mamiya recoil 460 R flex, Titleist Pro VIxoptic yellow with revkev stamped on them. So you bend them 1 degree strong, bounce follows it by a degree. 00bolt, September 12, 2016 in WRX Club Techs. Hi everyone, sorry for the slow reply! This is a statistic that is fairly consistent across all abilities of amateur golfers with only a five percent difference across all golfers. And visa versa, if the original bounce is low and/or the club has a sharp leading edge, the reduction in bounce may have a significant impact on playability. TM Spider Mallet w/ Carbon insert See below the make percentage for an average golfer from varying distances. Thats why I custom order iron sets with lofts that are 1-to-2 degrees weaker than standard about 40 percent of the time. PING Forged wedges May 23, 2016 at 04:54 PM. Bending 2* strong will increase the clubs digging tendencies. Reset Password Lynx Black Cat irons were set this way, so I had to have the 5 iron bent 2*, the 6 iron 1.5, the 7 iron 1.0 and the 8 iron .5 (this was my experimental set). Its not about research or information, its about ego and emotion. I created this website after hearing the same questions from my students over and over as a place where new golfers can come to learn and improve their golf game. I know my distances with the Ping set too well and I dont want to go through a whole season of trial-and-error with new irons, so would it make sense to have my new Mizuno irons bent to the old Ping specs? I did the math on these numbers years ago when I had an early release and wondering why I could not hit the irons very far. In the fittings I do on a golf radar, I see all types of swings and golfers of different ability levels, so the variances in fittings can be dramatic. This is a list of all clubheads that clubmakers are not allowed to bend. After a quick gapping review we bent 2 clubs and tried those out which gave a good base to work from. How accurate are the loft and lie readings of clubs straight from the manufacturer? TaylorMade Rsi TP 3-PW (1.5* strong) NS-Pro MOdus 3 tour130 X I know that for every degree strong I bend it, it will take a degree off the bounce. Im contemplating a set of Mizuno MP-53 irons. In the five starts mentioned above, the St. Simons resident has some impressive first round finishes. If the hosel design and manufacturing processes allow it, the lie of an iron can be bent 3-4 degrees or more with no compromise to the integrity of the head. Driver: Charles Kelley whats in the bag accurate as of the Pebble Beach Pro-Am. If your Ball Speed was higher than that, say up to 125, which is a few MPH slower than PGA Tour average, you would want spin to stay within 200-300 RPMs higher, and Launch Angle to come down to about 14*. I take healthy beaver pelts with short irons, but the 2 iron is just a nip of grass. At a club fitting it was pointed out that I had about a 0 aoa and was launching a bit higher than ideal. TM TPx. Driver: GolfWRX is on the ground in Orlando ahead of the 2023 Arnold Palmer Invitational at Bay Hill Club & Lodge. Hes learned nothing Olympic legend launches scathing attack on Tiger Woods over tampon apology, Golf fans left bemused following bizarre Jim Nantz blunder, Best driver 2023: Expert club fitters recommend the best driver for your swing speed, An UP-CLOSE look at Tiger Woods famous Scotty Cameron putter, David Feherty ridiculed for Greg Norman comment during LIV broadcast, Tour pro says LIV would be done if Brooks Koepka returned to PGA Tour, TOUR REPORT: McIlroy switches drivers during Genesis Invitational (plus Tigers iron change). Cleveland RTX4 50, 54, 58 Adjusting 2 degrees strong will kill the bounce of your irons. - Chick Evans, Irons: Mizuno T-Zoid True 5, 7 and 9-irons, Wedge: Mizuno S18 54* and Top Flite chipper, I will add a little to what was posted above. The only way you would see a difference is if you put them side by side with another set of Ap2's that are not bent. i realize the distance and ball flight. Humans think theyre logical but when it comes down to it (when the wallet hits the counter), they are controlled by feelings, who they wish they could play like and what company has qualities that match their identity. And provided the hosel of the wood is long enough to allow the bending bar to fit over its length, metal woods can be bent to custom-fit a player. They catch a bit but I hit it crispier. You won't notice it. That means judging any of this due to the club head alone and isolated makes no sense, we have to include the player and his delivery of the head since thats what matters for if we can / should go weaker or stronger or leave it as it is. Any knowledge on the subject would be appreciated. My advice would be to start by making sure the lofts are set to manufacturers specs. Callaway Epic - HZRDUS BlackCobra F9 3 Wood Machines that adjust for all hosel positions, such asMitchell Angle Machinesare accurate regardless of the offset or hosel design of the golf club. Calla SuperHot (Orange preferred) ||Bag: Sun Mountain Three 5 stand bag. Great answer Blake. I think that makes a difference. TaylorMade M1 15* Tensei CK Pro White 80X or Bending strong 2* decreases bounce by 2* and increases offset by about .75mm. There is no question that golf is one of the hardest, if not the hardest, games in which to become reasonably proficient. For most players the answer is - MORE than we normally can bend static lofts (plus minus 2*) sorry, didnt mean increase loft. The simple fact is that good golf cannot be played with a bad grip on the club. (I ran into this today.) The point is today, regardless of your skill level, if you work on making your grip and your set up closer to the proven fundamentals of the best players in the game, your path to better golf becomes infinitely easier. I will also need to bend my irons 2 degrees flat according to a lie board. Privacy Policy The loft difference in the AP2 7 iron and AP3 6 iron is 6 degrees apart. Hope this Helps! FAQs You will see it often when a pro, for example, will eliminate his 4 iron from the set and they may strengthen their 5 iron a degree or two and weaken their 3 iron a degree or two to even out the gaps. Ping Redwood Anser- the "real deal!". What to consider when bending golf clubs. You can post now and register later. Forged irons should be checked every year or 2 anyway for loft/lie. Seriously. The fitter can then analyze a golfers swing pattern and adjust the lie angle accordingly. So what makes 15-16 and 6000 RPM ideal? If this continues well end up with 25* 7 irons and carry 6 or 7 gap wedges. More photos from the event here. I've never had a sand wedge bent. Equipment counts courtesy of Darrell Survey. well unfortunately people buy clubs based on their ego and the club manufactures feed it. **. I am a good long iron player and prefer them over fairway woods and especially hybrids. All rights reserved. 50*, 54* bent to 55* and 60*, Putter- Taylormade Spider Tour w/ flow neck How noticeable will the difference in trajectory be and will distances change? By NYonce. And you are right about the irons listed, X Hot is a shockingly low launching iron and the G25 would be the exact opposite, with Rocketbladez mixed in the middle. In turn creating around 12 more yds. To do this I will need to bend the 6 iron - PW 1 degree stronger. Since such a precise hit is needed to take advantage of the lower loft, the average distance each club hits the ball tends to converge at lower lofts for less-skilled players. Sorry to be a jerk but this topic comes up quite regularly so there are dozens of threads in the archives discussing this same topic. (more on this down below). The club was designed and built with certain characteristics. Approach play is the area of the game that leaves a lot to be desired amongst all levels of amateur golfers. It is common for a golfer with a swing speed of 70-to-80 mph or less to hit the ball with a lower trajectory than what is considered ideal. I'm fascinated by your basis for changing the lofts? March 27, 2015 at 11:41 AM So I changed my swing to compress the ball better instead, and just took extra club and swing easy. Each one of those sees him rightly disputing the market number one, but Im not sure I can get involved at around 20-25-to-one with any of the favourites, even if they hold excellent claims. * MD4 54/10 S-Grind replacedMD3 54/12 W-Grind. If you're a true picker, wont make you a digger. Powered by Invision Community. Generall, Dont worry and overthink this like most doo. So to get the most performance out of each iron, for these low ball hitters, we need to add loft. I showed him all the stats on the monitor and he was in agreement but when it came to buying the actual driver he insisted on buying the 9.5 head with the TP after all the work on the launch monitor. TaylorMade M2 (2016) 9.5* (2* lower) HZRDUS T1100 75g 6.5 You are also all correct in that it is a long iron. Learn how your comment data is processed. If you really want to improve your golf, you must define where you are losing the most strokes and start there. Wedges: Dynacraft Dual Millled 52*, SteelFiber i125 S -or-Scratch 8620 DD 53*, SteelFiber i125 S; PM Grind 19 58* -or-Wilson Staff PMP 58*, Dynamic S -or- Ram TW282 SW -or- Ram TW276 SW 2. May 23, 2016 at 04:54 PM. Guaranteed that if you looked at your ball speed it was dramatically higher. The main reason it is done on GolfWRX is so people can brag how far they hit their irons, generally with a passive brag. My advice is to get fit as cheaply as you can and find some newer distance irons on Ebay or BST that can fit you. Good luck! Yes, it would make the clubs a little 'longer' (with a lower ball flight), but it might not be worth . Required fields are marked *. Thankfully gone are the days of everyone demanding s300 S or X when they dont have the swing speed to support them. For most players the answer is - MORE than we normally can bend static lof, Lower launch, lower flight (generally) but you lose some bounce and add offset, Titleist TSi4 8.25* / Fujikura Ventus Black TR 7-X If my hands are 2" farther back or forward at impact that is + or - 3*. Potentially, this would mean the toe digs in and your shots go right (right handed).
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