https://millsentertainment.smugmug.com/William-Shatner-The-Wrath-of-Khan Over the top, hammy and with incredible choleric energy, but as he once said, when you trying to seriously sell a scene that has space ship with obvious carboard walls, christmas lights and a guy in a rubber gorilla suit with a plastic horn on its head, if you play it lowkey youre dead the audience is gonna focus on how cheesy it all is. I dont know nothing about Sigs, I do know any gunm that goes off when I lay it on a table gets sold with a warning and I never touch that brand or model again. This highly trained Fibbie was doing flips while dancing (breakdancing? Each incident gives them more blood for their macabre dance, and another tic-mark for their context-free gun violence tally. Id read that for TMP, they got NASA to help in the design of the refit Enterprise. 1.A rush to market, and as usual the blind greed of the gun companies who no longer test pistols before marketing them think it is cheaper (so the idiots think) to let the public test them. There was nothing wrong with the Glock action, it was a training issue. I also have a manual safety. Is it? When he put his hand on the grip, the weapon fired, according to the lawsuit. UPDATE:We were just made aware of YouTuber BoomStick Tactical who produced this video the day before our post published. You clanging a bell that went silent years ago. It seems safe to assume that while SIG is coming up fast on the outside, GLOCK is still most likely the reigning champ in terms of the firearms most often carried by law enforcement and other government agencies. A holstered base P320 allegedly had a mysterious accidental discharge without pulling the trigger. On February 19, 2021, Military.com reported: A former U.S. Marine and federal agent has filed a $10 million lawsuit against Sig Sauer Inc. alleging that his holstered Sig P320 a pistol that the Army's new sidearm is based on accidentally discharged, firing a 9mm bullet into his right leg. All chasing that pot of gold at the end of litigation.. Not that big of a stretch when considering the lawyers beating the bushs for clients to add to the lawsuits, and the fact many of them will lose their jobs if its proven to NOT be the gun, but instead negligence on their part. Glocks biggest problem is they havent innovated since 1985. Again, these are examples the plaintiff in this case is using to support his claim that the P320 is prone to un-commanded discharges.. So are dumb(or arrogant) cops. Again the Far Right Stupidity and hypocrisy is infinite. Heres the version of the report that ran later that night, during ABCs Nightline program . This subject has two prongs; One is the negligence of those who have shot themselves with 320s through violations of Rule 2, the other the possible mechanical design failing of the gun. You did get to sit and watch it with him, which leads to a serious question. Then theres the fact that the branches of the military have put the P320 design through their own batteries of testing and found it duty worthy. Would you? And people have a way of looking for ways to deflect blame for those discharges, especially when they stand to lose their job as a result. I would rather play handball with the Devil himself because if you deal with the Devil he will tell you that you agreed to lose your soul for a big box full of millions in cash. The heads up testing was immediately finished the Sig was the winner. Hello perpetrators, Lee Paige is clearly the gift that keeps on giving though our buddy Hunter Biden is a close second! Thats the same. I own Serpa holsters in multiple configurations (1911, Beretta 96, H&K, Springfield, etc) for most of the time theyve been around and I NEVER had an ND. Not only is it now the designated sidearm of all branches of the U.S. military, there are over a million of them in civilian hands. The new Kirk does suck. Thats deflecting from the real issue. how do I get one for my P320? That is exactly why all civilized countries have Government Agencies that monitor companies that have a callus disregard for human life and are only interested in the quick buck. Withe the P320 Sigs contract was $169.5 million, $103 million cheaper then Glock. The bullet struck a soldier in the leg. The second accidental shooting happened after police supervisors internally raised questions about the safety of the SIG Sauer P320. selling the 365 with strikers breaking? He said hes a gun owner and a concealed carry permit holder. Holding the striker fully cocked with nothing to block it if the sear fails is questionable at best. Then without any extra effort, the normal trigger pull caused the tab on the drop safety to sheer off. The Defiant regardless of who is the captain. Give me a break. People who had problems have been replacing them with Lightning Strike SS ones. One of the officers a few years ago was carrying his P320 in a P226 holster that he took a Dremel to make the P320 fit. He quickly too quickly tried to pick up the gun from the floor before anyone could see it, and in his haste, he picked it up with his finger on the trigger and accidentally fired the gun. Carrying a handgun in a purse, particularly one that isnt designed specifically to carry a firearm, is problematic at best. Hey, Im sitting here staring at my P320, waiting for it to go bang! Going on Sigs reputation I bought a P320. The pictures on the internet were enough to scare the shit out of you especially his wound in the thigh. My elderly aunt drove her Volvo into a parked car, and the yard behind it, and the house behind that, while she was pressing the brake as hard as she could. Strangely the car kept accelerating, almost as if she were flooring the gas pedal. MIM strikers made in India and put into Sigs. If it was so bad, why did the US Marines, who had the Glock, drop it in favor of the carry sized P320, the M18? Remember also that with a handful of notable exceptions, modern firearms do not just go off, no matter what is later claimed by those who may be held responsible. Kyle . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0LUbLu6TqA, Simply put, the P320 is not safe and the lawsuits arent frivolous. Too much MIM in that crap SIG, the old ones were great. But hey, in ruthless, lawless, Capitalvania were life is considered cheap and expendable no one gives a shit, especially the Far Right that screams about abortions and then kills off the children that were not aborted with loaded guns laying around the house. But as Officer Hilton says, There is no way anything could have gotten into my purseinto the trigger guard and pulled that trigger., This ABC report includes an interview with Joshua Harrison, a firearms expert hired by the network to examine the P320s design and give his opinion of its safety. In 2021 you would think a company would understand MIM metallurgy. Dont quote the four rules of safety in your article when all the hotness in the gun world is appendix carry pointing something at an extremity and the photos you use showing front slide serrationsputting your hands fingers near the business end of the barrel, because press checks from the front is the way all the cool operator guys do it. , 54 people all shooting themselves. . The second version emphasized the upgrade to fix the drop safety issue and notes that Harrison believes that problem has been fixed. But it hardly indicts the P320 as a badly engineered weapon or that its worse than another brand. Well I jumped in bed with ma and pa , told them that the devil was in Arkansas. Yesterday, a Canadian news outlet, CBC News, published a story regarding the unintended discharge last year of a SIG P320 by a Canadian Special Operator, resulting in injury and his unit withdrawing the pistol from service. You arent a gunfighter, either. They mandate more discharges, with more property damage, more injuries, and more deaths. So even if, as the ambulance chaser claims, the striker leg could vibrate off of the sear face, it could not discharge unless the drop safety was also disengaged because the drop safety prevents movement of the striker sufficient to make the firing pin protrude from the breech face. Effectively: you must be this dumb to get this job. They did, however, note that when they were contacted by ABC, the company pointed out specific circumstances that were subsequently uncovered in the investigations of a number of these incidents. Dude, your story is THREE years old. In fact, I dont own ANY striker fired polymer pistol. There are a few examples, I admitS&Ws M&P from around 2014 were near junk and I wouldnt have bothered to own one as a trotline weight, but apparently S&W had righted that ship since then. Two, the plunger may have a propensity to remain partially raised, or staged, instead of returning fully to its secure position, lessening the energy necessary to move it and thus allowing less effort to do so. Face it, you paid far too much for a plastic gun. Such being the case, there very well may BE in inherent design flaw in the gun; We shouldnt just cast the thought aside as being beyond consideration and insist on blaming the problem on operator error.. Sig can burn for all I care. The thing I hate is getting kicked around! If you can make the trigger move backwards, all bets are off. That show with no Shatner-Kirk and only a Nimoy-Spock wouldnt have gotten past the first season. Bagnell also represented Virginia Sheriffs Deputy Marcie Vadnais who sued SIG when she said her P320 went off on its own when she was removing the weapon from her belt. Vadnais was featured in the Nightline version of ABCs report. Fair enough. How many times does a pistol have to malfunction before you blame it? It doesnt matter whether SIG is at fault or not. The Moron engineer who decided to put that on the Glock should have been hung by his dirty balls. If its not legal momentum, it would have to be some other mechanism of failure.. My gun just went off! Bravo. But the reality is that the military has been using the Sig P320 for almost 5 years and they show no signs of changing. His annual qualification consisted of shooting 32 rounds. I love when people call law enforcement officers highly trained. Most dont get more training than what they had in the academy unless they are getting paid time to train, or are going for something speciality such as S.W.A.T. The Hide Armory. But just the same- a gun going off from momentum? They are plaintiffs versions of what they say happened. In a world of "innovative" guns, this truly is an innovated design and a step in the right direction for the future of pistols. Some of the plaintiffs claim the pistol can fire without the trigger even being touched. The P320 Voluntary Upgrade Program is a SIG SAUER initiative to upgrade P320 pistols at no additional cost . The P320s and P365s were junk, plain and simple. ! only reveals ones immature emotional attachment to an inanimate object, which reveals a pretty childish worldview. The military is already shopping for a new sidearm. He wasnt aware of it until contacted earlier this week by CBC News and suggested it was relevant in ongoing litigation in the U.S. We look forward to reviewing the incident in discovery in the United States, he said Friday. 3) If the sear fails, there is the drop safety in the way of the striker. Trust a P365 with your life. What a wonderful parody of a MAC cultist! Theyre the only product that is not. I dont consider the drop-bang issue a failure and Sigs response was actually above any real need, except to perhaps deflect any easy wins for slime ambulance chasers I get that. If the latter were to occur, the drop safety would prevent discharge because it would not be pushed up by anything. In 2020, the agent, who is a former marine, was doing his routine training with the P320. In June, Cambridge police Lt. Thomas Ahern filed suit, accusing Sig Sauer of selling a dangerously defective product after his P320 fired on its own while he was in the department's SWAT team van with six other officers. saw the video, doesnt explain how it bypasses striker pin safety. At rest, cocked, it may very well have enough oomph to set some primers off. 3. He had to be reprimanded by the range officer twice for unsafe handling of his pistol. Using an example from the first prong, we legitimately fault the user who shot himself in the palm, rightfully asking why in the WORLD his palm was in front of the muzzle when he set the gun down. A fellow kept his DA revolver in the desk. It sounds the same as arguing whether Captain Marvel could beat Superman up in a fist fight its pretty absurd and laughable. Third, Glock has had problems, too. I sold that pistol when I got it back. Sig, take this firearm off the market, and recall. And the idea some random comment section P320 hater thinks theyre smarter & more knowledgeable than the Army, Navy, Airforce, Coast Guard and Marine Corp combined regarding military pistol selection is just freaking laughable! One, the energy necessary to lift the striker-securing safety plunger may be insufficient due to a too-weak spring, or a too-light plunger, or some other design flaw, to reliably engage the plunger where it belongs. It takes time for any new platform to work the kinks out. No you haters are not smarter than the US military, who tested the P320 far more than your favorite YouTuber ever did. Frankly, I think that ship is the best looking sci-fi ship design ever, with the Excelsior a very close second. TTAG talked to SIG Sauer about the P320 suits and the ABC reports. Wow new finger grooves, crazy innovation. Mechanical engagement of sear to striker not deep enough (wanted lighter, smoother trigger pull without giving it any hand workmanship required with the deep notch much safer classic systems made since 1900) Result another big fail. Its not happening on your person without some catastrophic event. I have almost a hatred for Glocks but the one thing that they are is reliable. I have been purchasing and using Sig firearms exclusively for over 40 years. What it likely means is that cops and other law enforcement officers carry and handle their guns far more often than the average Joe or Jane. After all, there are limits on complying with Rule 2 and even Rule 3, because a gun muzzle is ALWAYS covering something, somewhere, and ALWAYS knowing what lies beyondperhaps FAR beyonda possible target is an impossibility. Bagnells and other lawsuits ABC claims at least 54 discharges and 10 suits against SIG describe instances of P320s going off dating back to 2016, prior to the upgrade. Cops are crap with guns, unlike me, a REAL pistolero! So it never had a history of a potential valid claim for ambulance chasers to work off of. Quite frankly, a sizable number of the LEOs that go there, would benefit from a Gun Safety 101 class. Bagnell said he thinks the discharges are due to both design and manufacturing flaws on SIGs part. It provides another example of how the gun free zone purportedly keeps people safe by not only keeping guns away, but by requiring more discharges nearby. That focus drifts. This will include an alternate design that reduces the physical weight of the trigger, sear, and striker while additionally adding a mechanical disconnector. . He said there has to be something wrong with the gun if this is happening to individuals with this amount of training, this amount of skill.. Heres the version that ran Tuesday morning during the networks Good Morning America program . The cheap seats were $100-$200 and you got to watch Wrath of Khan with Shatner. Seems a bit apologetic to me. Pity that some of the most common reactions fall into two over simplistic categories: 1. Too expensive to use their customers as beta testers. He was told to shoot two rounds. The military is much smarter and no, the gun is not junk. Sounds like most of these cases were off-body carry. Then after just three years without telling anyone they stopped all production including extra parts. Where is this lightning striking twice? The Glocks trigger had caught on a fold in the leather holster and it pushed the trigger part way back. Theyve now come to the attention of the legacy media. . L. LRRifleman . And it doesnt take too much Googling to find plenty of reports of LEOs suing the Georgia company as well (see here, here, here, and here for just a few). Theres a couple of possibilities. It was at that point that I knew the gun had a design flaw. Profits over reliability and you end up with junk. When Villani was asked for his opinion of SIG Sauer, he said, I carry SIGs, I own SIGs, I just dont own a 320nor would I ever. When Scott asked Villani what he found when he took a P320 apart, he said, I thought Wow, they need to do their homework, they need to fix this gun.. . The linkage isnt, but the way the striker leg and sear face mate up, the two materials being MIM castings, the small camming action, etc. Asked if the guns in these cases could have been mishandled, Villani responds, When I see videos of police officers getting out of their car and their weapon discharges in their holsters, nah, theres a problem with the gun. ABC then ran bodycam footage of a pre-upgrade P320 firing as a Michigan state trooper exited his patrol car in 2016 with no mention of the results of any subsequent investigation. The Nightline segment includes an interview with Major Peter Villani, an expert (paid) witness for Hilton. Sounds like these officers and others are attempting to cover their posteriors. I dont care about the upgrade that should never happen. Hilton's $15 million lawsuit said, "there have been 54 reported uncommanded discharges of the P320," meaning the gun went off by itself, over the last five years in 22 states and Washington, D.C. Sig Sauer did not respond to ABC News' request for comment. Capitol Police Officers Explanation for Shooting and Killing Ashli Babbitt Is Riddled With Problems, The City of Wichita Raked In Almost $200,000 Selling Seized Guns in the Last Five Years, State Judge Issues Order Blocking Enforcement of Illinois Firearms Ban Act Statewide, Federal Judge Grants Injunction Blocking Enforcement of ATFs Frame or Receiver Rule, Illinois Rep. Bob Morgan: Anything Stamped M&P is a Weapon of War, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-ZZ6pynGLM, https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/dea-agent-lee-paige-still-wont-go-away/, https://sofrep.com/news/dod-evaluation-says-armys-new-sig-sauer-p320-service-pistol-riddled-issues/, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0LUbLu6TqA, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jsu6WsSQ2_g, https://millsentertainment.smugmug.com/William-Shatner-The-Wrath-of-Khan. A shame but then no one was hurt. U.S. lawsuits The current allegations, then, are different, claiming that the P320 is prone to un-commanded discharges.. Canadas highly-trained counterterrorism force, JTF-2, is the only military unit with the SIG P320 in its inventory right now. CBC News reached out to Sig Sauer and its Canadian distributor, M.D. Big public relations disaster and Sig tries a second time to get the piece of shit to work and not go off when dropped. Its also beyond debate that current production Sig quality is drastically inferior to what it once was, particularly the German made pieces. First I have no problem with the Mk 25 or any other Sig thats metal. Depending on who you talk to you will get many different answers. The more someone touches, loads, clears, cleans, holsters, un-holsters, or otherwise deals with their firearm, the higher the statistical likelihood that complacence kicks in. This is the goal of those who would disarm us at the Post Office, as we take little Yevgeniy or little Shaquina to school, as we fulfill our civic responsibilities as jurors to judge our peers, as we travel to and through less free jurisdictions. Hes talking about trial lawyers recruiting clients whove experienced negligent discharges with P320s and suing the gun manufacturer. Both versions of the ABC report included comments from Officer Hiltons attorney, Jeffrey Bagnell, who said, Its not credible to claim that people with this amount of training, this amount of skill are all shooting themselves. Hilton has filed a $15 million lawsuit alleging the P320 has a serious design and manufacturing flaw. A holstered base P320 allegedly had a mysterious accidental discharge without pulling the trigger. LOL! It has been flawless so far. No autographs, No self taken pictures. Sigs bid was low because they were still pissed after being beat by Beretta in cost. Not much detail is provided in any of those other claimed incidents, but a few stand out. Yes, but that did not mean the machine would be able to go on being marketed like that. Either one could have been a gun or a Barbie. TAMPA, Fla., July 27, 2021 /PRNewswire/ -- A 30-year veteran law enforcement officer with the Tampa Police Department (TPD) today filed a lawsuit against Sig Sauer, Inc., the maker of his. Being highly trained doesnt eliminate stupidity. Thats just myopic brand lust on parade. Zero in the affirmative. BTW it was HK that made the first polymer gun, Glock actually stole the idea for the G17 from them. Sep 20, 2021 613 571 Idaho. I cant stand Glocks but SIG P320s are junk. Ditto; that's what i was getting at earlier Bear007 Custom Aug 25, 2021 #18 Keep the phrase legal momentum in mind. This is this same company that couldnt build their own freaking rifles after multiple attempts (Sig SG550 series) when that rifle had been made in Switzerland for years without issue. You need a lead that can be the lightening rod and not be afraid to make an ass of themselvesit give the watcher permission to take it seriously. Theyre just on a 30 year nap hoping what they did will carry them forever. The latest of these suits was filed last week in US District Court in Massachusetts. NEWINGTON - A Hillsboro man is suing Newington gunmaker Sig Sauer alleging his Sig P320 pistol fired, without him pulling the trigger, causing a bullet to be discharged into his thigh. The American manufacturer of the new pistols belonging to Canadas special forces claims the soldier wounded in an accidental discharge last fall was using the wrong holster for the weapon. 1:07. The pistol is popular with commercial gun owners and law enforcement south of the border. If this were a car, a phone, a refrigerator, it would have been recalled long ago. They didnt see a problem at all and in fact, saw it as an upgrade over Glock. Ever since the internet went mainstream I have read about the Sigs decline. 35446 Views 56 Replies 41 Participants Last post by tirod, Sep 1, 2021. 01:10. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. The real tell is that of all the cases, most are cops of some kind. It nicely describes what has to happen in a striker-fired P320 for an un-commanded discharge to happen as the plaintiffs have claimed. (c) If conduct constituting an offense under this section also constitutes an offense under another . Manual safeties on pistols, hammer and striker fired systems were found necessary as far back as 1900. To give you an example of early self-propelled lawn mowers if you lost your grip on the handles the mower would not shut off and it would take off on its own right down the street all by itself. He likens it to a bow-and-arrow, pulled taut. abprototype.com can add the manual safety as well as add the notches in the grip frame. Neither argument is relevant or very intelligent and certainly not useful. This is just blind greed using some careless doofus to sell a lie and cash in because a civil jury, like the average American voter, can be manipulated easily though emotion, tears and stories of anguish, pain and suffering at the foot of some super-rich evil corporations cold-blooded behest. If the military was going to go cheap then they should have thrown Taurus into the mix. I dont own a Glock or a SIG and am not a fanboy of either. My dad owned one and that is exactly what happened one time when he was using it. Fine. I can say one thing for sure, the X on the side of the my is about is welcoming to me as grip zone was. They've also been adopted as duty guns by law enforcement agencies across the country. Lastly, ship-wise I have to go with the TMP-era refit Enterprise, regardless of Captain. You would have to conclude theres a problem with the product, not with the people., In the Nightline version, Bagnell says, Firearms are not subject to federal regulation. Second, your claim that the military is dumping because theyre problematic? to docile, too subtle, to contextual. Oct 20, 2022 #36 ; vh20 said: . There are several stories about her in the news for various no reasons, she must be throwing them out by a dozen. So far I have only heard of one instance (post fix) where there was an ND and the post mortem on the gun demonstrating a mechanical failure. The more someone touches, loads, clears, cleans, holsters, un-holsters, or otherwise deals with their firearm, the higher the statistical likelihood that complacence kicks in. . I am also very much a DS9 fan, best series overall. A too light 1911 as some use in competition or God Forbid for carry- could jump the sear if dropped. SIG P320s were just the start and the P365 isnt far behind. The VIP screening with the meet and greet was like $600. While it seems that I have a preference for battle ships, The Romulans had Warbirds. Milwaukee Police Report Issues With Sig P320's Discharging By Tom Knighton | 11:30 AM on October 30, 2021 AP Photo/Charles Rex Arbogast Several years ago, there was an issue discovered with the. Its hard to say yet but with anything follow the basic safety rules. The design was incorporated from Bruce Grays trigger kit around the time of the original drop safety fix. When he put his hand on the grip, the weapon fired, according to the lawsuit. Really, that JJA ship looks like something the folks at PlaySkool built, its terrible. Great job, this threat needed some levity! For instance theres Lieutenant Thomas Ahern who was was performing a routine function (test) of his P320 when it fired at him without any force towards the trigger, resulting in the bullet impacting his left thigh.. The incidents occur outside the forbidden zone, as we disarm before we enter so we stay in assiduous compliance with their nonsensical requirement. Sig Sauer P320 (Christine Peterson/TNS) February 22, 2021 Ryan Morgan Gunmaker Sig Sauer is facing a new lawsuit from a U.S. federal agent who claims his holstered P320 pistol discharged without him pulling the trigger and struck him in his upper right hip. Then either the gun somehow managed to magically clear both the broken tab and foreign body to continue to operate. My bet would be that someone had a fully loaded gun in a gym bag and a cloth or rag snagged the trigger. Its a novelty, its got issues! . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jsu6WsSQ2_g. I wont argue theyre wrong, I dont own one, dont want to. It SHOULD have more engagement width wise, but often doesnt due to things being rounded or out of square. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-ZZ6pynGLM Maybe its a technical issue, maybe its a training issue. I think in the end even if there is no mechanical defect (dont hold your breath) it will be found that the Sig is causing accidental discharges for the same reason the Glock does, because if you snag the trigger on the Sig model that does not have a manual safety (some do) the gun will accidentally fire. ABC ran their story on the P320 twice, but with some significant differences between the two reports. Its the expert who gets caught up in the routine and stops paying attention. This reminds me of when Gretchen Carlson sued Fox News for sexual harassment and she got 20 million dollars. We will respect the ongoing investigation and will not offer further comment at this time, Bineau said.
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